Thanks chimaster,but,you dont know where do I live (in wich country).Here is impossible to do that and thats why Im having this problem to find these tests.I got this information from Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi(I find his e-mail adress on the Web)but he also doesn understand me.

Man,am I in trouble or what?

Is there any hope for me?  :(

There is always hope. Change the subject to something that you have resources for. I assume that when you began, you were too enthusiastic about Flow to check what's available beforehand.

Other than that, I have no ideas.

No,I don` t want to change it.Im a survivor.Im gonna find the way out, somehow.You are right about enthusiasm about flow,but there is no reason for me to stop.I have some ideas about it, and I also think that I could find the qoestionnaire for flow(Susan Jackson`s).I think that in this moment we all need a break(summer vacation)     :)

Oh yeah, breaks are gooood.

Bohemian Rhapsody / Show Must Go On

It sounds as if "flow" is more about achieving a specific state that would enable you to perform better at certain activities than about how to be happiest.

Some questions;

1. What proof that 'man was born to be tested on this earth'? - seems to imply that a creator or higher power designed us to suffer in order to test something - yikes.

2. How should we determine exactly what an 'optimal state' is and how to recognize it? Would an optimal state be considered the same thing as the greatest possible subjective experience of happiness?

 

 

I never heard for this approach(Abolitionism),sounds interesting.

chimaster:

Oh yeah, breaks are gooood. Bohemian Rhapsody / Show Must Go On

No , summer is great "chi".Im fed up with studying at this moment.Enough is enough :)

Flow is largely about happiness.

1. That is probably just the writer's brain idling.

2. If happiness brings about optimal survival in all situations, I would say the two are inseparable...

...However... "Yet we have all experienced times when, instead of being buffeted by anonymous forces, we do feel in control of our actions, masters of our own fate. On the rare occasions that it happens, we feel a s sense of exhilaration, a deep sense of enjoyment that is ong cherished and that becomes a landmark in memory for what life should be like.

Such events do not occur only when the external conditions are favorable, however: people who have survived concentration camps or who have lived through near-fatal physical dangers often recall that in the midst of their ordeal they experienced extraordinarily rich epiphanies in response to such simple events as hearing the song of a bird in the forest, completing a hard task, or sharing a crust of bread with a friend.

Contrary to what we usually believe, moments like these, the best moments in our lives, are not the passive, receptive, relaxing times - although such experiences can also be enjoyable, if we have worked hard to attain them. The best moments usually occur when a person's body or mind is stretched to its limits in a voluntary effort to accomplish something difficult and worthwhile. Optimal experience is thus something we make happen.

Such experiences are not necessarily pleasant at the time they occur." ...Think of giving birth.

“   According to Csikszentmihalyi, flow is the experience of the melting together of doing and consciousness, the integration of physical, mental and emotional functions in a feeling of wholeness and connectedness, the experience of meaningfulness and enjoyment. Flow-experiences represent a highly pleasurable state of mental order going along with the feeling of competence and mastership. They lead to genuine satisfaction and a growth of mental stability and complexity.

Having flow experiences leads to growth and learning and improving your life becomes a question of making flow as much as possible a constant part of your everyday experience. Csikszentmihalyi argues that a life filled with 'flow activities' is more worth living than one spent consuming passive entertainment. He says, the point is to be happy while doing things that stretch your goals and skills that help you grow and fulfil your potential. In other words: the content of your experiences over a lifetime determines the quality of your life. His life's work has been to study what makes people truly happy. Drawing upon years of systematic research he invented the concept of "flow" as a methaphorical description of the rare mental state associated with feelings of optimal satisfaction and fulfillment. His analysis of the internal and external conditions giving rise to "flow" show that it is almost always linked to circumstances with high challenge when personal skills are used to the utmost.”

Does liky or anyone else have any personal experiences with the flow mindstate that they'd want to share? Like a euraka moment you had or something.

That might be more germane to the discussion than a mere abstract discussion of the phenomena, or trying to "measure" it, which is really tertiary to LIVING IT, right?

 What I mean is, it's fun talking about cars, sorta interesting fixing them up(?), but these activities don't replace actually driving the thing.

Yes, before I knew flow as a kid I had a peak experience in after school sports. Let me explain what happened.

 

I never hit the ball in sports, I never slam dunked a basketball. Truth be told, I was hit constantly in school because I was different. Still, at times I would be with a group of kids that were ok interpersonally. I was always on loosing sports teams. One year, by chance, I was on a winning softball team. Since I never could hit a softball, I was last in the batting order.

 

So at one game, I hit the ball. I was so shocked that I did not immediatly run to first base. Getting a single hit in softball changed my life. I was so high after hitting that ball into the outfield. I was the kid that never did do well in education but came from a middle class but troubled home. I experienced flow on that day just before we moved out of the area.

 

Since then, in my life, I have been trying to create flow experiences for myself with limited opportunities. If you do not get a college degree in the USA, it is hard to make a living or own a house, car and have the income to mantain a happy, functional family. I hope that it changes for me, but the only thing that keeps me sane is the hope that I will get my just reward and just desserts.

 

I hope that helps you liky.

 

 Well, hello to everyone.Yeah,I'm back as you can see.Sorry for took me so long time to reply but so many things happened to me in the past two months,but I'm O.K. and I hope you're all fine too.Oufcourse that I want to continue our discussion about FLOW.Is there anyone else who thinks the same?

"  What I mean is, it's fun talking about cars, sorta interesting fixing them up(?), but these activities don't replace actually driving the thing. "

 I like the idea of shering our experiences of flow very much.No doubt that is usefull.Thank you Afn for telling me your story.It's very helpfull to me.You know that there's no man who is capable to do and to  be succsesfull in everything,and its good when you get satisfaction when you least expected.Yeah,the feeling is great.You said that you are trying to create flow experiences for yourself with limited opportunities,and I understand that.Its very difficult to succed and " to make life worth living" anywhere in the world without college degree(oufcourse if we are thinking on the same level). I think the same,and I'm trying to get one degree too.There are too many ways of that how people define happines.It's individual thinking.

Anyway,I didn't recently experienced flow,unfortunatelly,and I miss that feeling,to be honest.Personaly,for me that is the state when I'm giving my best without any effort ,and when I usually get high results in the activity that I'm doing,like the definition say's.

I've had experience of flow so many times in my life without knowing what state I am earlier.Usually I get it when I'm playing basketball or any other sport,cause I love sport,or when I'm reading a good book or studying(I think that this last is much important for me cause I'm not allways happy to take the book and read some stuff that I don't find interesting,that happens to every student am I wright?)

That's it for now.All the best.