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PhilBowermaster

Transhumanist Rhetoric

George Dvorsky makes some pretty good arguments for giving up meat-eating, most of which would be hard to disagree with -- although #4 is a fairly obnoxious straw man argument. Unfortunately, that word "obnoxious" more or less sums up George's entire approach. I have very little use for sanctimonious self-righteousness applied to any other area of life, so it's not surprising that it leaves me cold when applied even to an issue with which I tend to agree.

Please note: this is no personal attack on George. We at The Speculist are big Dvorsky fans. We cite his work all the time. The terms "obnoxious," "sanctimonious," and "self-righteous" are applied strictly to Geroge's arguments. On a personal level, he's a swell (and very smart) guy. Unfortunately, when he calls all us meat-eaters "bad people," I'm not sure such a distinction can be made on our collective behalf. (However, I have no problem with being called "bitch." In the context presented, it seems more colloquial and affectionate than anything else. Kind of like being called "Dawg" or "Home Slice," only more emphatic.)

I've written more than once on my belief that the world will one day be a meatless -- although not necessarily vegetarian -- place. I agree that it's wrong to cause animals undue pain. I agree that our current industrialized livestock management practices are abhorrent. And, from a purely practical standpoint, I think we'll have a much stronger moral footing with our AI descendants if they see us treating weaker / arguably inferior life forms with as much kindness as possible. In short, I think I'm just about ready to be persuaded that I should give up eating dead animals altogether.

Unfortunately, George's piece has pushed me no closer to the brink. He divides his time between preening over the superiority of his position vis a vis his listeners and slamming them for not being as enlightened as he is. For crying out loud, the flushed, sweaty Bible-thumpers who blustered their way through the endless revival meetings I endured as kid in western Kentucky knew better than to take that approach.

Next week, the Boulder Futures Salon will be discussing the future of persuasion. I think I'll bring a copy of George's blog entry as an example of how little progress has been made in rhetorical technique. Here we have a world-class futurist taking an "I'm good; you're bad: be like ME" approach that even the most backward fundamentalists dropped decades ago. You see a lot of this kind of thing among "progressive" thinkers when dealing with the great unwashed who haven't yet achieved their level of enlightenment. (An example -- for whatever reason, atheists seem particularly prone to these excesses when arguing against belief in God. This could be a reverse application of the old adage that "converts are the worst." Which would also apply to George, I suppose, what with his five-year tenure as a morally superior being.)

Anyhow, here's hoping that George finds a means of making his case worthy of his subject. It deserves it.

UPDATE: Dvorsky follows up:

Now, in regards to the accusation that I'm a 'bigot' or intolerant of meat eaters, that's an interesting point. Bigotry, I suppose, is relative. Let's imagine for a moment that I had written an article titled 'Racists are bad people,' or 'Homophobes are bad people.' Do you think I would have received the same kind of negative response? Hardly. Aside from a few anachronistic and unenlightened perspectives I'd get a slew of comments saying, 'right on, brother.'

But the fact that I didn't get these sorts of supportive comments, aside from a small minority, indicates to me that our transition to a mostly meat-free society is a process still in its infancy.

This is interesting. I accused George of making obnoxious arguments, not being a bigot. But I doubt I would have much problem with obnoxious behavior towards racists or other bigots. It's important to be aware of where we are in the transition, and I tend to agree that we're in the very early stages.

A century and a half ago, a proto-Dvorsky might have written a self-righteous and obnoxious essay entitled "Why People Opposed to Racially Mixed Marriages are Bad." From where I sit, that argument could have been made as sanctimoniously as the essayist desired, and I've got no problem. But a mixed-marriage fence-sitter (or even a supporter of mixed marriages) from that era might have reasonably argued that it's early days, and proto-Dvorsky is doing little to help the cause.

Still, if he changed even a few minds, and more importantly, if he got people talking about the issue...

It's a tough call. Maybe in a world of screaming memes, obnoxious is the way to go.

Cross-posted to The Speculist.

Published Thursday, August 16, 2007 8:48 PM by PhilBowermaster

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George wrote on August 17, 2007 9:10 AM

Hey Phil, thanks for your comments and the added publicity. This is exactly the kind of conversation I was hoping to illicit with my rather sensationalistic article.

Indeed, people hate being told that they're 'bad,' and you correctly noted that the phrase was used as a rhetorical device (although I don't necessarily agree with you that it was explicitly 'transhumanist' rhetoric -- the same argument or technique could be used by anyone advocating for vegetarianism and/or animal welfare). I was also hoping that people would read the humour in the title and the article, but that was lost on most of my readers; tone is very hard to convey in print.

And as I learned, people lose their sense of humour when you threaten to take their meat.

Now, to the point you're making, that of persuasion. The goal of changing minds was secondary to my attempt to re-frame the discussion in much stronger terms. I’m trying to get the word out. While certainly over-the-top, I was trying to squeeze in a modicum of truth in the assertion that meat eaters are "bad" -- or more accurately, they are consciously making poor moral decisions as it pertains to the welfare of non-human animals and the environment.

This needs to be said. And it needs to be said in no uncertain terms. Did I hurt people's feelings? Damn right I did – and I’m sure people who read my article are looking at themselves in the mirror a bit differently as a result. Are these hurt feelings proportionate to all the suffering that goes on across all the factory farms across the world? Hell no. This is no laughing matter. The article was meant to attract attention (which it most certainly did!) and to cajole and upset -- which I think it also did.

As to persuasion, I know that several people converted to vegetarianism on account of the article. I'm certain that many others are now considering it where perhaps they weren't before.

Okay, now to your claim that "self-righteous and obnoxious" articles do little to help causes. That's a claim that requires proof. As John Ralson Saul once said, "There's no convincing evidence that writers can do their job by being nice." Can you prove to me that any social reform in history was won by people being contrite and low-profile? An issue becomes an issue when people a) can articulate their concerns in a way that makes sense and b) let everyone else know how pissed off they are about it.

And of course, getting the word out is crucial. Where we probably disagree is in how this is done.

 

PhilBowermaster wrote on August 17, 2007 10:40 AM

Hey, George --

I guess I'm in no position to assess the historical relationship between the civility of rhetoric and the adoption of various social positions by the public at large. This is a subject that bears greater exploration. Look at the progress on gay rights over the past few decades. Was it in-your-face rhetoric that got us to where we are? Actually, I don't think arguments (nice or otherwise) had all that much to do with it. Something is carrying these memes along and helping them to work their way into the sort of mass consciousness, but I think the means may be much more subtle than what we traditionally think of as the art of persuasion.

However, rhetoric is our current topic, and for that, I only know what works on me. The accusatory approach turns me off. Telling me that I have no excuse for behavior that I've never sought to justify to anyone -- and certainly don't think I owe YOU any explanation for -- doesn't get me any closer to changing my behavior.

Say you've got Martin Luther King on one hand and Malcolm X on the other. Both were pretty effective, although their rhetorical styles were at odds with each other. Of course, neither of them were "contrite and low-profile," but then that's just another one of your obnoxious straw men. ;-) It's not a choice between being emphatic and in-your-face on the one hand and just demurring on the other. It's a matter of how you want to frame the appeal. And, for me, a question -- "Isn't it Time We All Stopped Eating Meat?" --  or something of that ilk, backed up by a lot of the same facts you used anyway, would probably be a lot more effective. You're basically appealing to people's reason and their sense of right, anyway. Why not do it in a way that invites them to draw the right conclusion, rather than telling them what the conclusion is and why they are hopelessly wrongheaded if they believe otherwise?

Here's one of the best examples ever of this sort of argument:

http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html

Very much in-your-face. Still, Swift trusts his audience to come to the right conclusions, rather than smacking them over the head with what a bunch of benighted moral cretins they are if they don't agree with him. I personally think it's better for me to figure out that I'm a benighted moral cretin than it is to have someone tell me (very insistently) that I am. But that's just me.

 

Sgaileach1 wrote on August 21, 2007 11:26 AM

There's one way though

That you'll never convince people

And that's when you try

To be someone

Who's not telling

And who's not trying to compel

Who's trying to tell you

What you ought to be

Convinced of

Throbbing Gristle - Convincing People

 

Abolitionist wrote on August 26, 2007 10:22 PM

George's argument appeals to me because I think it's good to take pride in doing what is ethical and I feel a cognitive dissonance when I realize that I'm doing something that goes against my ethic.

There's nothing weak (IMO) about caring about your honor and sense of responsibility in relation to your ethic.

IMO, self 'right-eousness' or being how you think is right according to the best of your knowledge (without making yourself miserable) - can lead to greater happiness.

It's meaningful.

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