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Immortality

George

Chatting with Alcor's Tanya Jones at TV07

 
It’s funny how these things go. There I was at the TransVision 2007 celebrity reception last Thursday, drinking white wine, munching on hors d’oeuvres and eagerly awaiting the arrival of William Shatner. I was looking forward to a once in a lifetime opportunity.

And then I realized that I was in the company of Tanya Jones, chief operating officer for Alcor. I had never met Tanya before and I have yet to visit their facility in Arizona. I was very impressed with her TV07 presentation from earlier in the week and I was bursting with questions.

So, as we were waiting for Shatner to arrive, we began to chat.

To freeze and protect
During her talk two days prior, Tanya gave conference attendees the rundown on some of Alcor's more recent work and initiatives. It was a fascinating glimpse into the world of cryonics and what it takes to run a company on the technological and social fringe.

She noted how Alcor teams can be rushed to the bedside of dying patients as they ready for the suffusion of cryoprotectants in preparation for freezing. Without this highly engineered liquid, preservation would be completely disastrous with each cell suffering a host of problems, including ice crystallization and the eventual threat of it losing all its physical integrity upon reanimation. The cryoprotectant gel, which replaces the blood after death, essentially converts the body into a glass-like state upon contact with liquid nitrogen. The body’s informational state is thus retained at the highest level currently possible.

Consequently, getting the patient into cold storage quickly is paramount. As Tanya noted during her presentation, “time is trauma.” During the cocktail reception I asked her how long would be too long. She replied that any kind of delay is detrimental, but that after 24 hours the real serious and irrevocable damage starts to occur, namely cellular degradation and host of other neural problems as the brain begins to lose its cohesion and organization.

I asked her if Alcor has a policy for refusing the receipt of severely damaged corpses, say a body that had been terribly damaged by autopsy or by a motor vehicle accident. She answered that in such cases, where information theoretic death is all but assured, it is not up to Alcor but rather the predetermined wishes of the deceased. When an individual signs up with Alcor they specify the various extremes to which they will still agree to be cryonically preserved. Alcor unquestioningly adheres to the wishes of the patient.

Tanya also described the freezing process which is done under strictly controlled conditions. The body is slowly brought down to the optimally low temperature and is carefully monitored for fracturing. Quite frustratingly, every preservation that has ever been conducted at Alcor has suffered from fracturing of some sort. Tanya described the sound as ice-cubes popping in a drink.

I squirmed in my seat listening to this description, wondering how our high tech descendants will repair this sort of “information theoretic” brain damage.

Honesty, integrity, credibility
I was impressed with Tanya’s honesty and I told her so. By being open about current limitations, they come across as being less interested in the “sell” aspect and more concerned with creating a credible and legitimate industry. Along these lines I asked Tanya about regulation and whether or not she believes there will ever be such a thing as a monitored cryonics industry.

Not only did Tanya whole heartedly agree, she is convinced that it is inevitable and that a big battle is looming. “But Alcor,” claimed Tanya, “is ready.” She quickly outlined her plans and strategy for what she thinks will be a long and drawn out struggle to get the kind of regulation in place that would be to the benefit of Alcor and the burgeoning industry of cryonics – a battle that she believes will come sooner rather than later. As it currently stands, Alcor is 'regulated' under the Anatomical Gift Act, which makes Alcor a kind of glorified research lab and organ storage facility. Which I suppose is better than being acknowledged as a funeral parlor.

It’s this lack of recognition and backwards thinking that has arguably landed Alcor in trouble. The scandalous Ted Williams affair, which Tanya claims is finally all over and done with (including cash in hand), is an example of how a new and unrecognized industry can face undue challenges and public scrutiny. More formal and cogent regulation will not only give Alcor needed credibility as they work to create a viable business, it will also result in a safer and more effective industry.

From grave to cradle
Interestingly, while Alcor is primarily concerned with preservation, they are also looking ahead to a time when reanimation will finally become possible. They project themselves as being an all-in-one facility. Today they freeze bodies; tomorrow they hope to be the company that brings the dead back to life.

To this end they are creating a research lab in which rats will be cryonically preserved and experimented upon. This approach makes perfect sense. It will allow them to not just look ahead, but to gauge the effectiveness of current preservation procedures and technologies.

Jokingly, I complained to Tanya about their use of rats. “The thought of a little cryonics lab filled with frozen rats in tiny dewars is unsettling," I said, "Who wants to see a reanimated rat running around? Why couldn’t you guys have used cute little bunny rabbits instead – it would be much better PR to see a bunch of revived bunny rabbits hopping around.” Tanya laughed and noted how animal experimentation will in fact escalate and eventually come to involve more complex organisms such as pigs.

Cool company
I have yet to sign up for cryonics. My reasons are, admittedly, personal, complicated and even non-nonsensical. There may come a day, however, when I've reconciled my broader existential outlook with the prospect of cryonics.

Until then, however, I will laud the efforts of Alcor and continue to advocate for the right to a long life. They are certainly blazing a fascinating trail into the future.

Oh, and I totally missed the opportunity to meet William Shatner. I barely even noticed that he was in the room when I was chatting with Tanya.

Now why do you suppose I have absolutely no regrets about that?
Published Wednesday, August 01, 2007 8:46 AM by George

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urchinstar47 wrote on August 1, 2007 5:44 PM

Interesting, does that mean that they can now vitrify the whole body?

 

Abolitionist wrote on August 9, 2007 6:09 PM

It's good to see them being so upfront about the difficulties involved in cryonics. I wonder how the experience is for the animals (do they only use those that die of natural causes? - if not, are their ways to ensure a good experience for the animals?)

I too must confess to entertaining theories that prevent me from signing up for cryonics at this time - seeing a person die of natural causes, be vitrified without damage, and then come back and be repaired would probably change my mind completely. Perhaps it's some unconscious fear or irrational meme developed to dispell a cognitive dissonance - but I'm happy to see that others are signing up and supporting what seems to me to be a very honest and ethical company that will help develop the technology and political policies to support it.

Soon I'll have to face my fears and sign-up - IMO, moving close to a cryonics institute - or cryonics team and closely monitoring your health and risk taking is important for making this approach work in the present societal design...

I wonder how information theoretic damage from a crack would be re-repairable - that's alot of complex predictions to try to interpret what was before (though I imagine a single crack through the skull wouldn't be impossible to fix or all that damaging even if memories were lost.) I wonder if making the cooling process more gradual at crucial stages would help...

It would be interesting to hear what Alcor thinks about whether or not humans should be allowed to freeze themselves before death.

 

Abolitionist wrote on August 9, 2007 6:27 PM

The cryonics solution would likely best protect tissues that can more readily absorb the cryoprotectant - it may be that other structures like bone cause larger systemic cracking. How does the electromagnetic energy of the brain and body behave during cryonic preservation and reanimation of animals? How well can a solution penetrate tissue and prevent it from changing in a way that is damaging during vitrification - are their inherent limits to this approach?

 

urchinstar47 wrote on August 16, 2007 2:06 PM

I doubt that cracks are such a great issue. The solution would probably be computationally intensive, but not a great problem. In essence you have to fit everything together along the crack, as the structure is probably mostly preserved even along the crack, the damage from the crack should not be great, even if it is of any significance.

 

urchinstar47 wrote on August 25, 2007 10:45 AM

I guess I'm not as up to date as I thought. Full body vitrification is practiced for the past 2 years or so.

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About George

Canada's leading futurist, activist and award winning blogger, George has written and spoken extensively about the impacts of cutting-edge science and technology. He is the Director of Operations for Commune Media, an advertising and marketing firm that specializes in marketing science. George has more than 10 years' experience in media, arts and communications. With relationships forged across several continents, he has managed international accounts for leading brands. In addition to his work with Commune, George is currently serves on the Board of Directors for the Institute for Ethics and Emerging Technologies. He is the co-founder and president of the Toronto Transhumanist Association and has served on the Board of Directors for the World Transhumanist Association. George has been interviewed by such publications as The Guardian, the BBC, Radio Free Europe, and Beliefnet. He made an appearance on the CBC's The Hour and has been profiled in NOW and This Magazine.
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